Full Transcript

Sari
The bigger your dreams, the bigger your goals, the more support you need, not less. Every great entrepreneur knows they need experts, they need a community to help support them and connect them to really get that momentum going. If you find yourself in that start, stop, start, stop struggle where you have an amazing idea, something you make in your home kitchen. It can be a food item, beverages, pet treats, or even body care and you just can't seem to get it off the ground or you haven't been able to make a profit yet. I want to offer you a free workshop. It's called Whip Up a Business You Love. And in it, you're going to learn the foundational pieces of having a business that works. An idea is not enough, a desire is not enough. We need to have a foundation and a plan for your next steps. And in that workshop, you're going to get my startup checklist, we're going to talk about your product, about pricing, what that investment looks like, how to really know if you have a solid idea, or a business plan that's going to work. And I make you an incredibly delicious offer to join me in Food Business Success at the end. Go to www.foodbizsuccess.com and in the right hand corner, you will see where to register to get that free workshop. And then I hope I will see you inside Food Business Success and on one of our Fuel calls very soon. Welcome to your Food Business Success. This podcast is for early stage entrepreneurs in the packaged food industry ready to finally turn that delicious idea into reality. I'm your host Sari Kimbell, I have guided hundreds of food brand founders to success as an industry expert and business coach, and it's got to be fun. In this podcast, I share with you mindset tools to become a true entrepreneur and run your business like a boss, interviews with industry experts to help you understand the business you are actually in, and food founder journey so you can learn what worked and didn't work and not feel so alone in your own journey. Now let's jump in. All right, everyone, welcome back to the podcast. This one's really special for me. I'm really excited to welcome Robin Hanover. So welcome to the podcast.

Robin
Thanks so much for having me, really excited to be here, especially kind of going through our journey of working together these past few months and super excited to share with your listeners. Yeah.

Sari
So why don't you just give us a little brief introduction about you before we jump into our chat today?

Robin
Yeah, so I'm Robin Hanover, I am a financial consultant and coach, I have been in the financial industry since 1985. Crazy. And I have spent most of my career as a traditional financial planner and advisor. And as I've been in the industry for so long, I realized that there is definitely something missing in our industry as far as having deep conversations around, you know, the emotions around money, the behaviors around money that we make, that are based on the thoughts or what we assume to be true. And all of these rules of like you should be doing this with your retirement or X with your 401K. And, you know, I'm kind of back in the system a little bit. And you know, and I feel like I have the expertise and now the age behind me.

Sari
The wisdom and experience.

Robin
The wisdom, you know, I'm 57 oh, my gosh, but yeah, I think it's really important because even when I have, you know, I work with clients on a variety of ways, but you know, everyone makes those emotional decisions around their money. And, you know, sometimes we need to stop and ask the question, are these my beliefs over? Where did I pick these up from? You know, did I get them from my parents? Did I get them from googling, from my co workers? You know, where do what? Yeah. What do I really believe about the money that I'm making and or not making? And yeah, so we dive into that.

Sari
Well, I definitely have thought about doing this podcast for a long time. I knew back when I hired you. I guess I'm like there will be a podcast. So here we are. Well, first of all, I want to preface this to say I asked you to be open, and I am willing to be very open and vulnerable about my journey with money. And so for those of you listening, get ready, buckle up, there might be tears , there might be, you're going to get a little, you know, peek inside some of my brain and things going on around money. But I really started in 2022, I started really thinking about my money as an entrepreneur, as a business owner, and just honestly as a woman getting older, right? I definitely have thoughts or had thoughts about I'm not good with money. I get it in and then I spend it just as fast. And some of those like fantasy thoughts of like, it's just, it'll all work out. It's fine. Right? And I have never really taken ownership of my money. It seems daunting, it seems scary, overwhelming. And frankly, just terrifying, right? So because of what might be on the other side, right? The fear of like, oh my gosh, I've screwed my life for the future, right? I've always been one of those people that really lives in the moment, like it's a little bit of that blind abundance around like, it'll be fine. Just live in the moment. Now I tend to be one of those people. So in 2022, I just noticed myself thinking about it more. I remember in June, I asked a good friend of mine, a coach friend, who's also an attorney, and I was asking him about money and like, you know, thinking about a little bit about retirement and investing and thinking about those. And he said to me, I said, you know, I just want you to, I just want to hire somebody to do it for me. And he was like, you have to know this yourself. You have to learn it. And I was like, but I don't want to. And he's like, you got to know this, you have to and that stayed with me. And that was in June. And then that summer, I just kind of kept thinking about it. And then I heard a podcast with you on it. And it just really resonated with me. And so I found myself being like, who is this woman? Let me go learn about her. And I actually just, I just listened to that podcast, again, to kind of prepare like what was it about that? And so we'll talk a little bit more about that here coming up. But I reached out to you and I just resonated right away. We were like 10 years apart. Exactly. We really had like very similar journeys, right? Like, fathers dying very early, way too early. Weight issues, right, being very overweight, and then losing the weight. And I think maybe some similar money issues or but you know, I felt like I was like, whoa. This is wild like how similar paths we've been on in many ways. But I felt very, what I did love about you is that it wasn't just coaching, it was also is, you know, that's important. I mean, I'm a coach, I know that's important. And there's plenty of money mindset coaches out there. I wanted somebody who could teach me about money, could help me get things in order. Who, frankly, you know, I listen to your stuff and I'm like, she's a badass. Like, I pictured you in the 80s walking around the, you know, the stock market, the Wall Street with your shoulder pads? Tailored suits and whatnot. So I was like, she knows her stuff. So I engaged you as my coach. We worked together for six months. And so I want to talk about, we'll talk about that journey a little bit. I just wanted to kind of give people the background of my story. And I knew that I had, it was time as terrifying it was so was to look at my money, right? And I'm an entrepreneur who's starting to make really good money in my business. And I was terrified to look at it. I was terrified that it would go away. It was terrified that I would do something wrong. And so actually, I want to start there and talk about I guess just as entrepreneurs, you know, I coach high achievers, who are probably trying to do it all right but sometimes we avoid those money piece. So let's just talk about kind of the things that we avoid and why it's so important to know.

Robin
Yeah, well, I think, you know, a lot of that goes back to when we're first looking at money or even thinking about money. You know, I'm a Gen-Xer. So, you know, I started working when I was 11, you know, babysitting or whatever. And, you know, I remember my parents saying, I think Gloria Vanderbilt jeans were like the hit back then. And I'm thinking, I really want to pair those. And so I will give credit, especially to my dad, I'm from a family of entrepreneurs. And so my grandfather was a very successful entrepreneur, my dad was in the printing industry. And my aunt was one of the first nursery plant owners here in the state of Florida. So it's really interesting how the family dynamic was always about the security with being an entrepreneur. But there's also, you know, with that, there's a lot of things that you got of, you know, juggle being an entrepreneur, and one of that is really looking at your expenses and what's coming in, and what's going out. And, you know, when you get to a point where you can hire a CFO and they take over for you, that's great, but I still believe when you are an owner of your business, you need to learn how to wash your own dishes. And that comes, especially with your money, you got to be able, you know, even though at some point, you hand it over to someone, you got to be able to know the basic foundations of like what's coming in, what's going out, where's your overhead? Do you have too much? Your margins, you know, even just your general spending, so when you're an entrepreneur, it still overflows into your own personal spending, you know, we take a you know, if you're an S corp, or you know, sole proprietor or whatever that is, they're commingled on some level. So I think one of the most important places where we started is all right, well, let's look at really what's coming in, and what's going out. And for that, that is probably one of the most I think, for you especially too, and actually, most of my clients when they're not used to, you know, I like to say they're kind of keeping the head in the sand and knowing that it's always going to work out which it does, but I think it gives you such empowerment especially as a woman to realize, okay, got this money coming in, I'm doing great. But what is the issue that I'm not holding on to it? Is there something underlying there? And I think for you, it was you know, and a lot with others, it was, okay, our belief systems, what we were taught and modeling from our parents going back to that, you know, like, I mean, there's so many thoughts of like, money is evil, or money doesn't grow on trees, or there's, you know, and again, going back to my personal, like weight journey, it's like, kids are starving, you got to clean your plate, you know, you can't leave food, you know, stupid stuff like that, that I'm just like, is this really my belief? Or is it my parents belief or my grandparents belief? And then granted, I mean, my parents were part of the Depression era. So I get it, but that scarcity mindset comes up, and it overflows into a lot of pretty much every decision that we make, or not make, and it's a really easy thing to recognize, okay, is this scarcity or am I feeling and abundant, or, you know, in love? And really the true thing is when you get that visceral feeling of like fear when you're making a money decision, or when you're opening your bank account, and you get that gut feeling of like, ooh, that little panicky, like what's the amount? Or if you're constantly checking really well. Yeah, or if you're constantly checking the balance, you know, that's a very common one, when you're constantly checking your balances in your account, what's going on, you know, what's underneath that's preventing you either from keeping more money in your account, or making more? And a lot of it goes back to our self worth. And that, you know, we're not worthy to get to that multiple six figure level or that seven figure level, and we spend it on stuff that we don't need. And, you know, we go back to think, okay, is this what I'm supposed to be doing? And then you get to a point where you are at just like, you know, sorry, I'm going to swear like a holy shit moment of like, I have nothing in my retirement or you know, I'm almost 50 and what's happening? And the beauty of it is that it does it is really not too late to start anywhere where you're at and really I kind of started a lie even though I've been in the industry a long time. You know, the investing piece is completely separate. So it's like I always I had my first home at 21, thank God for babysitting money. But again, it was a different time too, you know, I was able to buy and interesting enough, the interest rates were like 10 to 12%. So it's, you know, here we are February 2023. And, you know, I get the interest rates are, you know, high, but compared to, you know, back then, it's nothing. So, you know, I think just in a roundabout way is, you know, really getting comfortable with just the number. And I think we make it mean something that it's not. And I go back to that story about, you know, when you step on a scale and you're trying to lose weight, you make that number means something and you give it more power than what it needs to be. And the beauty of numbers, what I love about numbers is that they're clean, they're neutral, there's no meaning toward that we just have a thought about it. And there we are, we're off and running or not running based on the belief system around the money that we have or not have.

Sari
We're relying on the scale or the bank account to give us either feelings of like, oh, I'm winning, I'm doing this, I can figure this out. Or, oh, my gosh, what's wrong with me? I'm a failure. It's all going to end, right? And I kind of did a weird hybrid where I was like, I'm spending money. It's abundant. It's always coming. But then I also was hanging on to a pretty large, in my mind, a large chunk of money, certainly more than I ever had in my life before but I was like, terrified to do anything with it. I didn't know what was my money. What was the business money? What I still needed to pay expenses? I mean, it did give me security, right? There was a sense of safety when I saw that number. But I felt like I shouldn't be doing something with this. But, you know, especially as we talked about, you know, with inflation that we've had, I mean, literally, cash in your account loses value, right? You're losing money. And I'm like, I probably should be doing something with this but I don't know what to do and I don't know what the right thing is. But I think as a solopreneur. And I'll just, you know, for my experience being a single woman, it's extra, right? I mean, I work with people who still have full time jobs that are, you know, very lucrative jobs or their husband or wife, right? Their spouse is still working. And there's security there, right? But I, as I think what I realized is I've always as an entrepreneur, and now I'm in year seven, that I always had some pretty deep feelings of fear, insecurity and not feeling safe with money. That was definitely something that came up for us. But, I mean, why is it so important that we, because I just feel like as an entrepreneur, like whatever baggage you have as an individual, you're just multiplying it a lot. So how does like when we bring in our personal money, drama, all the stories, right? I grew up pretty religious. In a place where women weren't necessarily supposed to work, you weren't supposed to have your own money. And certainly all the, you know, religious pieces around greed and wealth, but then later on just kind of general society, and some of those messages too. But you know, what happens if we continue to operate with the things that we bring in our business?

Robin
Yeah, it is really interesting, because I think, you know, one of the things and again, I've been an entrepreneur for, you know, 40 years now, and I think the thing that what comes up for that I've seen as a regular, almost like as a cycle is when you're scaling or when you're trying to scale it's like, okay, when you leave like say you leave a comfort of a W2 position and you want to launch, you know, your own business, all have that fear sums up. Because you have this belief system that a W2 job is like your main security. Now, granted, being an entrepreneur is not for everyone, it really isn't. You got to be, it's a roller coaster ride, you got to be up and down. But I gotta tell you, you know, when the market crashed in 2008, that was a big wake up call for a lot of people because a lot of people did lose their jobs. And again, we're now we're fast forwarding under COVID, same thing. And to me, security is what I bring to the table, what I can create, what I can do. And when you start going into that, then you start having these other voices in your head as far as oh, you can't do that, or you have to do it this way. Or, you know, you're only, you know, you make a certain amount of money, because you don't want to drive, you know, there's embarrassment also to about success.

Sari
You don't want to be too showy either, right?

Robin
That was a big, that was a big one for me. It was like, we don't talk about money. This is a huge generational thing. We don't speak about it. You keep quiet, you don't buy anything that shows any money. And you know, so it's a very deep seated belief that you don't realize it's there yet the same things are starting to happen. Meaning you're overspending on your office expenses or margins and you don't know why. And because a lot of it when we dive deeper, we realize, okay, I'm not really comfortable having. It's being okay with having. It's being okay with going to that next level. And being okay with rocking the boat a little bit among, you know, your family members or friends, all of that. And that is the number one thing that I actually see is really not the fear of failure but the fear of success. And, you know, going to that next level because we're so comfortable staying comfortable and small, that we just, we want to get to a level that were okay but not like expanding.

Sari
That worry about judgment, right? What people to think. And I mean, I think we're constantly, is for me I was kind of used to people judging me for being bad at money like having thoughts and whether they did or not. I don't know, but I just assumed that they all were thinking, Sari's terrible with money, she can't figure it out, you know, what are we going to do with her, some of those. But when I started making money, and that was very uncomfortable, and still at some times of like, buying things, flying first class, buying my condo, buying a nice car, or some of those things of like, because what happens is fear judgment, right? We fear people are going to have thoughts about us showing off or being too much or look at her. And we're going to be separated from the group. Because if people have those thoughts and like they're going to want to distance themselves from us as well. So it's really not just the judgment, it's the separation that could potentially happen. And I've had to deal with that a little bit frankly with, you know, maybe it's just my thoughts about it. But with my family, I feel like, there has been a little, in some cases, a little bit of distancing, where they're kind of like, what's going on? You know, we don't really know, it's a different version of me, right? And certainly, with some friends and things like that, it's been a little bit rocky to figure out what that looks like, and what this new version of me is.

Robin
It's really true. And it's actually probably one of the most powerful things that keeps us small is really the family dynamic. And, or, you know, our friend dynamic, because, you know, it's easier sometimes like I said, to stay in that space, yet, when we step outside, and when we start expanding ourselves, you know, when you're on a growth trajectory, not only personally but with your business, you know, you do have that, there is that lingering of thought of like, well, who are you, you know, who are you. And I think that's really prevalent. And I also think, too, is like, you know, when we make or goals as business owners and then we get to that goal and we're still not satisfied then that's another piece that we need to look at. It's like, okay, was it the dollars that I wanted in my bank account or the stuff that I could buy with it? I get to that point and I look back and I've lost friends, my family somewhat distant because I've stepped out of my social, economic, you know, boundary so to speak, and you have to kind of readjust and it takes a lot. It really is. It's a very emotional space to go. And then, you know, then there's other people that like, just don't give a crap and they just go forward, but I think it's definitely the norm to really dive in and look at, okay, why am I still? Or why do I go back, you know, to where it was comfortable? That's a big one. Because you can make all these goals, you know, the same with weight loss like you can, losing weight's easy, it really is. It's the maintaining of it because the exact same thing with money, it's like, people look at you differently, you know, say you lost 30. I mean, you and I have lost quite a bit of weight, you know, and so we change our whole life. When you make such a drastic change, people look at you differently.

Sari
Yeah, they make different assumptions, for sure.

Robin
And money is the same exact thing, it really is. So I find that fascinating. And what I love doing is really working on the tactical piece as far as okay, let's make our money work for us. Let's learn how to do, you know, make it compound because there is a magic to it. I believe there's such a magic to money when you actually know how to do some of the foundational detail work and making it work for you where you don't have to do that much, that compounding factor. Yet, you also have to be okay, letting that number in your bank account. So you have you know, I don't know 50,000 set aside in your savings account. It's a nice happy number that when you open your account, you're like, oh, that makes me so happy and safe. And you touched on that.

Sari
It's not actually the number. It could be $5,000, it could be 500,000. It's whatever, and I really want to stress that for people listening. Like it's your thought about it because that it was never enough for me. Like it just kept getting bigger. But I was like, oh, but it's not enough for me to feel safe, right? Yes. Like to truly, internally feel true safety.

Robin
Yes. And really, what is that? You know, what I mean? What is internal safety? You know, when we release that fear of knowing, and especially as an entrepreneur, if we know that we can go out and get new clients or we know, or are able to make a we have whatever we have within us. That's drive and tenacity. And you can't teach that and you can't put a number on that. Because either way, you know that you're going to make it, you know, it'll work.

Sari
And I want to, I think for me, my experience a couple of things that created safety for me. In my thoughts, right, it's not a number, but this is coach, this is why we do like coaching is a couple of things, it was understanding and getting educated about my money. Like what's coming in, what's going out. And I'd love to talk a little bit more about profit first but implementing that model, like really getting visibility and education and understanding like knowledge is power, right? Where I was, like empowered now. I understood what was happening in my business and created better systems. But it's also an acknowledgement of resourcefulness that I've always figured it out, I will continue to figure it out. I have even more tools now with coaching. And I mean, I've had a couple of years now of one on one coaching clients. And like, there's a belief like a solid core belief that does not come from a number in your bank account. It comes from an internal belief that I'm resourceful I have, I'm full of resources, I can go figure it out. I can create clients, I can create, you know, I can create money, right, in various ways. So I think those two things are actually really if I were to say what creates safety, at least for me, and my experience was probably those two things. And the second one, it's always a work in progress, right? There's definitely days, I've been like, it's all going to fall apart.

Robin
The sky is falling.

Sari
It's about managing my mind, right? There's so much junk in there. And I still have primitive brain that freaks out when I am going to do something different. I'm going to make a shift or I'm going to try this and it's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, you know. It's always it's a practice. It's not a one time done thing but it was a transformation. And I think, I mean, it came from two things. It came from the empowerment and the knowledge working with you. And then also just consistently reminding myself and you helping remind me and other coaches of like what all I have done to this. Yeah, like, I'm still here.

Robin
Yeah, you're here and you're thriving. I mean, and now you know, you know, and I think that's, that's why I kind of, you know, again, kind of stepping out and creating my own business, you know, being in the financial industry, which honestly really hasn't changed much. And I was like this has got to change, we have to talk about the behaviors, we have to talk about the emotions. Yes, I can give anyone a beautiful spreadsheet, Monte Carlo analysis, financial plan, all of that stuff because that's my background, yet, it doesn't do any good. If you have all of that information in you stuffed it in a drawer, and you don't apply and you don't apply it personally to your own situation. And most advisors aren't trained in behavior and emotional finance with money, and they don't talk about it, they're uncomfortable with it. Because, you know, again, the goal is for them to gather more assets. And I was like, no, I'm not doing this. To me success is when I empower my clients to create their own success. I don't need to be managing their money, I can teach my clients how to do it, you know, and, really, I mean, it really comes back to that what you were saying about knowledge is power. Because as soon as you know this, and you know, what you need to do from point A to point B, the rest is just, you know, execution. And that's the beauty of having someone who's kind of on the outside now is, you know, consulting you as a client, or as a business owner is like, okay, you know, do this, this, this and this, even though at some point, you might hand it over to someone.

Sari
I will be handing it over to you.

Robin
Yeah, and so you can focus on your zone of genius. That is the key thing, is really focusing on that. And that's what I do is like, okay, let's just learn how to wash the dishes with your money. And then from there, turn it over, you know, to whomever that you can trust and guide you accordingly. But a lot of this you can really do on your own. And knowledge is like I said, power and especially from the business aspect of like, okay, why am I not making my goals? You know, and where should I? I had a great year, what should I be doing with all of this money? So yeah, it's really important. And so I think there's so many ways as far as I'm going to talk about Profit First, which I love thank Mike like get the slaughter is last night to, right? I think he's a wonderful machine Mike or something.

Sari
Motorbike.

Robin
Yeah, I mean, great, great, great resource profit first. Love it. And you know, I've always got done a version of it all my life anyway, like, really kind of, okay, where's my taxes? Where's that money going? You know, paying myself first, I think is one of the key number one things to do. Because as an entrepreneur, you're just reinvesting into your business. And you're like, well, wait a second, here we are at the end of 2022. Where did all this money go? You know.

Sari
And Tony Robbins actually, he talks about knowledge is potential power, right? So just me having the knowledge, but not doing anything with it, right? Like stuffing it in a drawer is not going to be helpful. And I really think working, especially with something as emotionally charged as money, but really, I mean, you know, and that's why I'm a coach. And I work, I commit to work with coaches because I know the power of the accountability and sort of forcing me to look at it, again especially something as emotional as money. And there were times when I was educating myself, I mean, you and I would have conversations. And then I was also reading some books, For Better Or For Worse, but I would come to these calls for shivers. I come pissed. I was mad, or I was very upset. I was sad. I was like tears, right? Like, nobody told me about this with my 401K, right? Like, my 401k that I from my divorce and all of the things. I took my hands off of it and said, I don't know, this guy seems to know, you know, we'll just call him Chad, the Chad's of the world, like, he's seems to know what he's doing. And come to find out, he did not, he was not serving me at all. And I was, there was a lot of emotion, there was a lot of anger, a lot of rustling, sadness, regret, right, beating myself up about the shoulds. And I should be farther along and I should have done it this way. And I'm so glad that I had a coach to help me through that because I don't think I would have ever done it on my own because that's terrible. It feels horrible, right? To not have somebody who knows what the heck they're doing and knows what they're talking about. Who isn't, yeah, who has the background and the expertise to be an advisor, but also a coach say, like, yeah, man is process your emotions, but also, here's where we got in here.

Robin
Yes. And also to learning how to ask, you know, I mean, I work most of the clients I have, they have their own advisors, which is great. But, you know, I can't tell you how many times I've come across clients who've had the exact same experience that you have, and, you know, really, from an insight standpoint, you know, advisors as a whole, you know, again, always trying to find someone who's a fiduciary but, you know, the bottom line is, is that if you are working with someone, and they don't have your best interests, even though they could still be a fiduciary, but their bottom line is when you're working for like, you know, one of those that like a Merrill Lynch or JP Morgan or whatever, they they are forced, forced, yeah. So yeah. You know, we call wire houses to, you know, they have to bring in assets, that is their goal. They have goals, they have, you know, they have everything that they need to be doing yet if they're not getting extended education. If they're not, you know, if they're talking over their clients. You know, they want their clients to be dependent upon them. Not all of them, but a lot of them do. And that's where being now outside of the industry, and independent, I can consult and be like, okay, these are the questions that you need to ask your advisor, you know, these are the things that you really need to know so you can understand where your money is going. And also to one of the things that we always talked about too, is like, do you have meaning for your money? Meaning, do you have a purpose? Is there an impact that you want to make as business owners, as high achievers, as purpose driven? We want to make an impact not only with our businesses but also be able to do that with our money. And how do you do that? And so those are the things that, you know, we talked about as well, too. But it has to be right for you not for what XYZ advisor tells you to do with it.

Sari
How do I want to create my business? And honestly, you know, I let go of my, through this process, I've let go of my million dollar goal. And I don't necessarily want to create a million dollars in a year because I actually don't want the staff and the headaches and the extra, like just because you make a million dollars doesn't mean you have a million. You just increased all of your expenses. So really saying what it was that I want, what kind of business do I want to create, and what feels abundant and rich? And I did a podcast in December about what is a rich life. And allowing yourself to experience that and I want to get into like that some of the actual strategies and tactics and things that we did. But I'll just I wanted to mention that whole idea of the ceiling, right, that threshold, where you're, it's kind of that thermostat, right? Where you might create more money but if you don't deal with your money issues, and you don't get the education and the knowledge around it, and I like what you said, of creating purpose and meaning for your money. And you don't deal with this stuff, you're going to hit a ceiling where you get uncomfortable, and then you're going to sabotage yourself, and you're going to come right back down to where you were, right? It's like the lottery winners that, you know, over time, they always come back down to wherever they started from. So yeah, if we don't learn like figure out what's going on in our brains to increase the temperature on the thermostat, we're just going to keep hitting that and come right back down. And we're going to be like so frustrated that we can't get past a point, financially or otherwise, in our business, whether its customers, or whatever that is.

Robin
Yeah, and I think that was a really big, that was a huge turning point for you, as always kind of like, okay, how to create that rich life without having to hustle and kill yourself, you know what I mean? It's like, okay, creating that life is the key thing, like you know, how you want to wake up in the morning and how you want to enjoy your day and how you want to enjoy experiences. And, you know, do you want to travel and what does that look like? And where tactfully should we put some of that? You know, so you have those funds in order to enjoy those experiences, right?

Sari
Not just spending more and more and more money on things, it's decide what's really important to me. Where do I want to spend that money? And a rich life is feeling good about the money you do spend without regret.

Robin
Yeah, and knowing exactly that it's actually in a place that's working for you instead of against you. That is a huge thing too. And realizing that, you know, I think sometimes hitting that easy button, that simple button, really create this beautiful life that you need without all of this puzzle and, you know, reaching for I think, in the end, just the coaching industry especially it's almost like, you know, multiple seven, and

Sari
You got to go for it. It's your duty to do this.

Robin
Yeah, no, exactly.

Sari
I want a beautiful business that I get to spend the majority of my time coaching and helping my clients transform their lives, not work, not working on like, or managing other people and not doing the performance pieces that come with a real big business.

Robin
And having those, yeah, I was going to say and having those clients that you truly enjoy and can't wait to work with.

Sari
Yeah, I love my clients. We're recording this on Valentine's Day and I just put out a podcast about loving your business and I just like gushed in a letter about just how much I love my clients like I love them. I love my Fuel members. I love, you know, everything I'm doing. I just love them so much. So that's a rich life for sure. I would like, want to hang out with them. I want to.

Robin
I know, the fact that you can't wait to get up in the morning and get so excited for your day. To me, you can't put a price tag on that. You really can't.

Sari
Yeah, a hundred percent. I mean, yeah, coaching high achievers are just hustling getting up to the next thing, the next thing, if I just get the next bonus, the next, the next amount of money, then I'll finally feel happy and safe and rich. And it you just keep moving the finish line out, right? You're on that treadmill of just like more and more more, and it's never enough. I'm on a mission to help change that.

Robin
Exactly. Yeah, exactly. I know.

Sari
But let's talk about some of the in last 10 or so minutes we have left, we can talk about some of this tactical strategy things that I did. And I want to just offer like, you know, you come with my full recommendation, if anybody out there is listening, and they're like, yes, this feels like me, especially women, I think women, you know, I was raised to like, you let your husband deal with all the finances. And I think a lot of times women especially put their head in the sand, not that men don't but or learn those stuff. But if you want to really learn about your money and learn how to invest and get all of your retirement stuff set up, I highly recommend working with you, Robin and creating that. Because yeah, it wasn't just coaching, we did a lot of strategy. So I know, we started with kind of just an overall expense, you know, income, expenses, looking at everything that was coming in and out. But then we really dug into my retirement. What I did have and made a strategy for that. So yeah, maybe just share a little bit more about like, what your philosophy is behind retirement and why it's important.

Robin
So I'm like a massive tax nerd, I really am. I just, I don't know, I just, I finished my CFP. And I'm just like, that was my favorite class that I took was taxes. And, you know, I don't want to prepare him. But I really, I know, I love it. And you know that because also too, everything's changed, like, you know, they just passed a Secure Act at the end of 2022. And it's a huge win for a lot of people because it's like, okay, now they don't have to take and again, you know, if you're in that 30 to 50 range, you don't need to worry about it right this second. But for my older clients, you're like, yes, I don't have to take anything until 73 now, and at some point, 75. And, you know, everyone's worried about security. But I think, you know, diving into the tactical analysis piece is, you know, that's my left brain and I really love doing that work. But I also like combining, you know, both the, you know, I want to call the spirituality or the behavioral piece to the tactical, and the retirement is a really big spot to work in is like, okay, should you be maxing out your 401k? Well, if you're not getting a match then maybe we need to look at putting some money in a tax free bucket, you know, and talking about the Roth, and there's so many advantages to having that and not having to be forced to take out what's called a RMD or Required Minimum Distribution. So basically, what you're doing is you're just kicking the can down the road for your taxes when you're just socking it away at 401k. Yes, you can take the tax deduction now but I also know so many people are still working later in their life. So it kind of defeats the purpose. So again, there's, you know, tactical strategies as far as, okay, where, how much you're putting into your 401k. Where is it invested? Is it in a Roth? Is it not? And is the investments feel good to you? I mean, that is a really big question is like, okay, you know, there was key items that you didn't want to invest in that, you know, were aligned with you. We talked about that, you know, specifically, you know, or China or whatever, whatever that is, those are the questions that you know, when you're making your money and you want to put it into something to you know, not only for your retirement, but you also want to make sure that you're putting into companies that feel right for you. And that's the number one question to really, you know, dive in. And also to there's a difference between risk tolerance and risk behavior, you know, risk aversion because you know, you can fill out those forms that your financial adviser gives you. But if the market starts crashing, and you put down that you're aggressive maybe you need to revisit that. Because the behavior and what you logically your brain puts down are not in a cohesive match. So that's where we kind of dive in, you know, tactfully and like, okay, are you really where you need to be? Yes, you should be here because of your age group. But does it feel right for you? And that's a big one, you know, and not to feel shameful as a result. Because I think, you know, a lot of advisors like, oh, well, you have to be here because you're going to, but you know, what, maybe it's okay, maybe there's other, you know, roundabout ways to getting to your goal without having to be shamed into an XYZ investment or XYZ strategy.

Sari
That's true. I left out shame. Yeah, that's shame coming up. And when we start talking about money, we often assume there will be feelings of shame, which feel terrible, so we avoid it. But yeah, I like your approach where it was like what feels good, and there are multiple ways to get there. And I think something that early entrepreneurs, and I didn't know this much about it either. And I working with you, and also I know, he talks a lot about it in Rich Dad, Poor Dad, but just the idea that your business actually, like people who don't have a business, or who are W2 are at some disadvantages in retirement and how you can use your business as a way to, I don't know, avoid taxes, or defer or move things around. Like it actually becomes a really powerful tool in a wealth strategy, if you know how to use it right.

Robin
Yeah, yes, yes, very true. And, you know, I and also to, you know, a lot of people on that, especially during COVID. I mean, you know, they might have kept their W2 but they might also might have started a little side hustle. And so then that, you know, brings in this whole beautiful strategy and dynamic of how they can actually optimize their taxes. I'm a firm believer in having a great CPA that works with you, and, you know, that can kind of give you their strategies as well, too. But again, they're in that CPA world where when you're working with someone who's more from the financial planning or strategy standpoint, they work together, you know, and, but, yeah, it's, it's amazing, there's so many benefits of, you know, being an entrepreneur, and I think, you know, making sure you have those again in alignment with you. But also to as far as you go forward, you know, making sure that you're looking at your margins and one of the number one things that I see with new entrepreneurs is they get their overhead way too high. And you know, the first three years are their most critical years and, you know, they want to buy the latest things, or they need this or they justified in their head.

Sari
It's a business expense.

Robin
Let's write it off. But then the bottom line is, you still have to take that money out of your account, you know what I mean? So you're gonna get it one way or another, and cashflow is the number one issue. Cashflow is key when you're coming to a business, and you know that robbing Peter to pay Paul, and that's where I think setting up that profit first. And in a version of that, that works for the for each of you is like it's really critical. And yeah, and I think, you know, making sure you have your retirement but not only that, we call it risk management. So like, if you're an entrepreneur, you know, what happens to you? Do you have a partner?

Sari
And that's a safety question like, if I got hurt, I won't work, I don't make money, right? I am the business.

Robin
So that was the key area that we really dived into is really risk management and making sure that your business is protected in case something happens to you. And or, you know, how are you leaving it? Is there a legacy that you want to create and leave to someone? So you know, that was the other piece that we started diving into after we created that foundation with the retirement. Let's talk about the risk management, you know, and I can say this honestly is like, you know, I don't have children. I'm 57 and I'm actually here in Florida taking care of my elderly mom. She has no long term care and you know, a lot of advisors, if they only do investments you got to have this conversation about okay, well, what's going to happen to you if you get into a car accident, I mean, you could end up in long term care, you know, when in your 30s and 40s and not realize it. These are conversations to have and, you know, like I said, it's uncomfortable but you have to have them and you can set things up accordingly so that everything is taken care of as well.

Sari
So some of the things we did were, I'd already started a rock, but understanding. So maxing that out where it could, we opened a solo 401k, which I had never really understood how that could benefit me on my taxes. And so it really, instead of paying taxes on that as revenue and income, I'm now sheltering that money. And it really, I don't know if it's completely washed but it's pretty close. So that's a real win. We moved some older 401K rollover stuff around. What else did we do?

Robin
The risk management piece we looked at. Yeah, yeah. Got you set up with that.

Sari
And then the long term health care insurance which was really huge for me. I called my brother. I said, finally, you're off the hook. And he's like, oh, what was I on the hook for? And I said, well, you were kind of on the hook to take care of me if I didn't manage my finances, or have some of these pieces in place. And I mean, it was very, I'm kind of an emotional conversation where, you know, I had always kind of, in my back of my mind, like just said, well, like, you know, I guess my brother will take care of me if I really don't do a good job and he kind of laughed but I was like, that was an amazing win for me to say, I got it. Like, I got my retirement figured out, I'm working on that. I got my long term health care insurance. We're adding some, you know, umbrella policy to my insurance to help if I was in a car wreck, like I am protecting the business and setting up emergency funds for both my personal life and the business. One of the most emotional pieces that really helped me was the Profit First system. And I want to just talk a little bit about that. We won't go into super detail obviously. I highly recommend getting the book, let's just kind of at a very high level, talk a little bit about it the way that I will say when you brought it up, I was like pretty resistant to it. I had heard about it before. And I was like, not another, not another strategy or tool or some book I have to read. I don't know, I was very resistant. Like, I don't know.

Robin
Most people are. I know. I know.

Sari
I did get the audible book and he's pretty hilarious. Yeah. So if you got to listen to a book about finances and money. Definitely, he's pretty entertaining. But I guess what came out of it for me was, you know, at a high level, it's kind of the envelope system of setting up different buckets for your money to go into. Really flipping it around instead of it being profit equals sales minus expenses.

Robin
So it's normally income minus expenses equals profit, right? So you know, you have leftover, whatever's leftover, right? So now it's basically,

Sari
Profit minus sales

Robin
Equals the expenses. So that right there is a game changer, because then, you know, people are like, oh, I'm gonna justify all these expenses. And then the profit piece is like nil, you know? So I think just switching that piece, and that thought.

Sari
The mental thing more than anything, it's like, wait, I am in business for myself and to create a profit. Like, let's not forget that that's part of running a business. And not just breaking even, right? Like, we do need to put that at the forefront, right? It's using our reticular activating system to say, yes, I'm looking for profit, not looking for expenses. It also constrains our expense account to be a little bit more mindful about like throwing things into the expense bucket. Definitely makes it more yeah, you're just focused on it more and you're making profit a priority. And one of the big things for that was yes, setting up the profit account where I actually got to take a percentage that goes into this guilt free buckets, right, that I was like, before I earlier I said like I didn't know what was mine, what was the businesses, what I needed. And now I had a clearly defined bucket that was like, yeah, this is your money to be able to, you know, go buy something, if you want to buy it, put it towards a trip, put it, you know, like put it towards your emergency fund, like you get to decide, but it was kind of free and clear. And then another big piece of that was having a tax account. There were certainly some year, a couple of years, maybe all of them of being in business where I got the big surprise at the end where I hadn't budgeted enough for taxes, and was like, oh, crap, where am I going to come up with that money, right, andd scrambling. And so it's our taxes and investment because those two go hand in hand, but actually having a system and a process to set money aside and make sure that's covered. Because we forget about that little thing. The government's money.

Robin
Yeah, it's the government's money. It's not yours. I know. Yeah, it's true. And a lot of people, you know, that you can do quarterly using get that all set up as well, too. But I think, you know, either way, I think if you're going to start just putting money aside for the government is the number one thing because once and I'm sure everyone have gone through that moment in your life where you get a tax bill, and you're like, holy crap, and there was nothing left where like you said. Do I have to put it on a credit card, and then I'm going to be charged 3%-4%, or whatever that is the government charges. You know, and I think that is one of the most beautiful feeling when you come like, and here we are, we're in tax season, and we're doing our taxes. But knowing you have that covered even with quarterly is on top of that is such a beautiful relief, you know, not you know, again, you won't know until you have your CPA do it but just knowing you have a chunk of change sitting aside for it gives you such peace of mind. And that's really what it comes down to is like, you know, even if you follow the Profit First system to the tee, or you know, adjust it to what works for you, you know, if you just have a tax and a profit account, whatever that is for you, you know, it just gives you that peace of mind that you can actually not wake up at 3am panicking and sweating and like, oh my god, I got to hustle to get clients so I can actually pay my tax bill. Or, you know, get a 0%, you know, credit card and oh my god.

Sari
I know, it's so stressful. Yeah. And so being able to pay myself my salary, right, yeah, my business has to pay me, right? But I am it I'm the household earner, needs to pay my mortgage, all the things, creating an emergency fund, having the taxes, having that separate bucket of expenses has been really helpful for me to get more insight into my expenses and make better decisions. And really meant, like, understand what's my money, what's other people's money, right? Whether that's services or contractors, or whatever that is, and just really having a lot more insight into it. And I know when I went and set up those accounts, which of course, I was resistant to it, because I was like. I'm sure people are like what I have to set like I literally had to go to my bank and set up, you know, these four extra accounts on top of what I already had. But when I did that, moving around, it was right at the end of Q3. So it was perfect timing. And he talks about having that quarterly shareholder meeting with yourself. And I moved all the money around. I just sobbed. I cried in like the best way in the relief and confidence and safety, right? I was giving myself a new sense of safety that I never felt before because I could see my money. I was taking care. I was hooking my future self up, right? I wasn't just living in the moment, instant gratification, but I was really taking care of future me with taxes and profit. And yeah, I know I came to our call the next week and just cried and just I mean, even now I can feel that like sense of security and confidence. And then I mean, here's the real thing for everybody listening is like when you feel confident, when you feel secure. You're going to act really differently in your business when you're excited about there is profit here there is things that I can you know, whether it's things I want to buy or trips I want to take or whatever it is that you're going to be more excited to show up in your business. It's not going to be such a drain and a drag. You know, feeling just like it's just this chain on your neck. You know, this anchor weighing you down. You're going to show up so much differently and I know I've showed up differently in my business much more free. There's a sense of freedom that I've never had much safer much, which leads to more abundance and less operating out of fear and scarcity. So it was really huge for me making that change.

Robin
And it was it's a big, it's a big shift going from a big number in one account, you know, and like you were sharing is like, giving that so much security. Yeah, it was almost that false security of like, okay, the number is still there. It's just divvied up into an allocated into places that will give you that security, that other peace of mind. So it's a big mind shift. You know.

Sari
I'm still working through some of that starting the New Year. I mean, that was one thing when the money was kind of all there that in that current year, but kind of starting from scratch, and like, there's definitely been, there has been some a little more scarcity, a little worry. But ultimately, like I'm working the system, and it's working for me, right, and it is working. So that is such a powerful tool. For folks, if you're an entrepreneur, I just highly, highly recommend reading that book. And under, you know, at least putting some portion of that. It can get pretty complex. You almost need to get the real book and the audio to see it on paper too. But, but really powerful tools in there. And I highly recommend as an entrepreneur implementing some part of that even if it's just, I set aside 1% or 3% of what I earn into a profit account. It shifts everything and how you show up for your business when you know that something in there is for you.

Robin
Exactly. Yeah, you got to pay yourself, you really do. Yeah, pay the government and pay yourself. Start there. That's the really quick and dirty way of just getting going of just allocating money. And you know, the expense piece. What I love, what I love did you is the expenses that are like non negotiable are the ones that provide you as the entrepreneur or safety meaning like, the risk management piece, if something happens to you, you are actually protecting your business. So those expenses go at the top, the rest, you know, operating expenses, you know, 1099 peeps that you need and all of that. Those are there too, but you have to protect yourself. You have to protect your business.

Sari
I could talk all day about this. Yeah, I hope that was really helpful for people listening. And it's fun that just even just who cares? Like you and I are having a chat but I know people listening will get some really good stuff out of this. And if like I said, if you're feeling like, oh, this is me, I need more support then Robin is an amazing coach. So where can people find you?

Robin
Yeah, so you can find me at robinhanover.com and I'm on Instagram although I am a Gen Xer So I'm kind of avoided a little bit on into the social media. But yeah, so robinhanover.com You can find out my bio, my story, my weight loss story, my journey from Wall Street to where I am now. And my mission of changing the money world here and having an impact on those who think who have a thought that they're bad about money but they really are not

Sari
Nobody's bad with money.

Robin
Nobody is bad with money. It is easily something you can learn.

Sari
So great. You're so fun. Thank you, Robin. It's been such a pleasure.

Robin
Yeah, I love that. So great.

Sari
Until next time, have an amazing week. The smartest thing you can do as an entrepreneur is to invest in a who to help you with the how to speed up your journey and help you skip the line. When you are ready for more support and accountability to finally get this thing done. You can work with me in two ways. Get me all to yourself with one on one business coaching or join Food Business Success which includes membership inside Fuel, our community of food business founders that includes monthly live group coaching calls and so much more. It's one of my favorite places to hang out and I would love to see you there. Go to foodbizsuccess.com to start your journey towards your own Food Business Success.