Full Transcript

Sari  
It's that time of year again when I put on a ridiculously hot and very ugly Christmas sweater and I tell you that it is time to start your holiday planning. Now. Yes, it's July. Yes, it's very hot outside, but we need to get into the frame of mind of the holidays to do this work, to set ourselves up for a really successful, fun and profitable holiday season. And I am so excited to bring back the super popular Holiday Ready Bootcamp for a second year. And this year, it's bigger and better than ever, including Zach's Buckler, who you heard on a previous podcast talking about lead ads. He's coming to do a live holiday specific lead ad class for us, as well as Umai will be back to talk about their Black Friday Cyber Monday tool kit and help us understand what are the trends that are coming up this year, and I have some all new content planned around pricing strategies and promotions that are scientifically backed so we know that they actually work. I know it sounds crazy to start your holiday planning now, but I promise you, when I was in Whole Foods Market, I had my holiday plan done by mid July, because if you don't, what happens is you're stressed, you're overwhelmed, you're constantly on urgent mode and missing opportunities, and it's just a mess, and it's not fun. And then the holidays get a bad reputation because you are in retail, because you are selling products. And that's not the way it has to be. This bootcamp is fun and engaging, and it's going to "force you" to come and do this work. You're going to have more accountability because you've made an investment, and we're going to get your plan done so you know exactly what you are planning to do, breaking it down into step by step, and really understanding the Who's that you need to bring in and the things that you need to go start doing now. Early Bird sales are happening right now. Early Bird pricing ends on July 22nd so take action. Go get in this bootcamp. There's only 30 tickets available. I like to keep it small enough that we can have conversations and really make sure you feel like your plan is dialed in. Go to foodbizsuccess.com/holidayready, all one word. I'll also put it into the show notes of all of the podcasts here. Go and get that workshop. Make this commitment to yourself that I'm going to have the best holiday season ever.

Welcome to your Food Business Success. This podcast is for early stage entrepreneurs in the packaged food industry ready to finally turn that delicious idea into reality. I'm your host Sari Kimbell. I have guided hundreds of food brand founders to success as an industry expert and business coach, and it's got to be fun. In this podcast, I share with you mindset tools to become a true entrepreneur and run your business like a boss, interviews with industry experts to help you understand the business you are actually in, and food founder journey so you can learn what worked and didn't work not feel so alone in your own journey. Now let's jump in!

Welcome back to the podcast. I am so excited to talk with Lisa of PremOla Granola, and she and I met in person a couple months ago, and I said, I'd love to do a podcast with you talk about your journey, and here we are. She agreed kind of last minute, and I'm so excited. And you guys are this will be a real treat for you guys. Welcome Lisa!  So glad to have you here! 

Lisa  
Thank you for having me. 

Sari  
One of the reasons why I wanted to talk with you on the podcast is you have a little different journey. And I think you're taking a different approach than, you know, sometimes a lot of people that we work with in Food Business Success are like, I want to be on do this big business. Nothing wrong with that, but you have a different mindset. And I think it's good for people to get a mix of of goals and why people are doing this. So let's just start from the beginning. It all came together. 

Lisa  
It's been a journey to get to that mindset, and I have to say, your program is helping, has helped us with that. So, but in any event, the way we got started was my son, Ben, graduated in 2020, high school at the covid and it was just a crazy time. And he went to college in the Fall, and he lasted about a week because he's like, it's locked down. I can't take it. You know, I can't be in my dorm 85% of the time. So he withdrew, and he came home, and he went to community college, and then in 2021 he asked to take a gap year, and we said, you know, sure, there wasn't a whole lot going on, but he found this program called the National Outdoor Leadership School, and he left to go to Alaska for a few months. And right before he left, he said, you know, Mom, we should market that granola you've been making all my life. And he just planted this seed. And I thought, okay, well, maybe, and so I couldn't really let it go. And funny story. I was one of our favorite things as a family. We listened to How I Built This, and we listened to the BoomChickaPop episode a lot. It's pretty funny. And I love her story, and I saw that she was active on LinkedIn, and I actually connected with her on LinkedIn, and I asked her some questions, and that's how naive I was. And she responded, and she told me about Naturally Chicago and the Hatchery. So I checked them out, and I'm like, oh my gosh. I had no idea that resources like this existed, and they exist for food and beverage and the Hatchery is like an incubator. And then so we're now members of Naturally Chicago. We became members of the Hatchery. Also, it was helpful, because of covid, that the classes were online, or, you know, remote. I could do them in the evenings. And so I just armed myself with this information and took courses. And then when Ben came back, I shared with him everything I had learned, and we decided, like it was March of 2022 that we thought, okay, let's have, like, a build your own breakfast granola bowl event in our house and invite everyone we know and get feedback on our product. So we did that, and it was hugely successful. Like people just showed up. It was a lot of fun but I was not convinced that it was, you know, viable because, of course, it's your friends and family, and they're all going to come out, even if you have a, you know, crappy product. So I said to Ben, you know, we have to do farmers markets. And he's like, all right, I'll do it. And so he did. Five farmers markets a week. We learned so much. And at the end of the market season, people were asking, like, where can we get this after the market closes? And I thought, wow. People really like this. And Ben was making connections at all the farmers markets he was at, people would say, oh, you need to be in Casey's and, you know, Naperville, or Kramer's in Hinsdale or the fruit store. So we approached everyone that they told us to about, and everyone said, sure. 

Sari  
You were under cottage food when you first started? 

Lisa  
Yeah. So then we had to find a commercial kitchen. And oh, gosh, that was a journey. You know, we looked at kitchens and thought like, we can't work out of here. And I was like looking every single day. And finally, one popped up where I had not seen before. And we got so lucky. We met with him, and he let us come in, do a trial run. You could just tell he ran a really a tight ship, and he became, he had to this day, he's somewhat of a mentor, and he has the perfect setup. So we go in once a month and make our product, and we go from there. But during this journey, Ben did all these farmers markets. It was our second year of farmers markets when my husband actually came across an article about a newly created program in Rochester, New York called the Golisano Institute for Business and Entrepreneurship. And then, you know, we read it, and Ben said, I think I want to pursue this. And I'm like, okay, that's great. And he left to go pursue, I think during PremOla, he realized, you know, like, this has been great but I need more skills. And I'm like, well, if doing this got you to that, then this whole venture's been a success. Like this has been great and it goes to Rochester, and the school is just amazing. They're very supportive of, you know. They love the fact that Ben had started this business, that we were doing this together. And then they connected him with some people that they know, you know, a pretty prominent grocery chain, and he met with them there, and they said, we like your product, but come back to us when you have, like a co man, a distributor, and they had a whole list, and at this point, you know, Ben came back, and we talked about this opportunity, and in the meantime, I had found you, your program, and it really challenged us to think, you know, in different ways. I have also listed a lot of podcasts and see a lot of things on LinkedIn, and we were not too keen on going this whole distribution route, or we always had this thing where we wanted to be learning. We wanted it to have to be fun. We wanted to get, you know, customer validation, and we didn't want to hemorrhage cash, and if any of those flipped, we were like, okay, we need to reassess. So when Ben came home, we were talking, and I'm like, Ben, do you even want to do this? Like, this would require capital, I don't know how much fun it would be, and he actually is, like, Mom, PremOla was awesome. I learned so much, but I really want to explore other industries. And I'm like, okay, there's our answer.

Sari  
I'm going to pause you there, because I want to, like, I want to jump into a couple things you just said and tease those apart. And then we'll, you know, give people the end. You don't want to give the end away too quick. So you started under cottage food, and I love that you took steps to validate the product, right? You were like, let's try this with friends and family. And then like, okay, Ben, if you're serious, let's try this at a farmer's market, and it was such a great what a, you know, wonderful experience for him. I'm sure he didn't love every moment of it at the time, but, like, it really set him on a path of entrepreneurship that maybe he never would have gone down. There was a pandemic in place. So what a cool thing to have that. And I think what I know of the story, and I think what you're saying is you were like, all right, I'll keep going with this. This is kind of like a mother son kind of bonding thing. But you have a mix of like, let's take action, but I also want to do my research. I don't want to go too fast.

Lisa  
I like arming myself with a lot of information and just knowing, like I had, we were talking a language we didn't know a couple years ago, like, yeah, you know, margins and sell sheet and CPG and distribution and wholesale. I mean, it was overwhelming. I felt like I was getting a mini MBA. And, you know, I don't think Ben and I realized how much we were actually learning. And I think he, you know, there were times where he, you know, we were meeting with our accountant to figure out how do we structure the business and LLC, partner, you know, just we had this great meeting. And I think Ben was like, oh my gosh, they're just so much more to this than I have even realized. And I want to learn more, and doing PremOla is great, but I think I need more formality around this. So, yeah, and this school was just such a perfect fit. It was like, didn't even exist when he graduated high school. And I'm like that, it's almost like they built the school just for you. It's just been a really good, you know, it's every kid's on their different path, and this was just a good fit for him. 

Sari  
And so together, you built this over a couple of years where you were going to a couple farmers markets, proving it, and then you got the commercial kitchen and all of the licensing. And then you made some investments. You got pre printed packaging, which is, you can see it if you're on YouTube, you can see it behind me. Pre printed packaging, you did more farmers markets. You did quite a few. And I want to also say you work full time. So you're figuring all this out how to fit it into the margins of your life as well. 

Lisa  
Yeah, we did this. We were really, you know, scrappy. I mean, we just did a lot on weekends and evenings. And Ben did the weekday markets. I help out on the weekends. And it was just a lot, but we more than doubled our sales in one year. And I thought, wow, this is, and we're only doing this part time. And I'm like, wow, this is amazing. And I saw great potential, but we always were kind of evaluating, like our life path, like, do we want to scale this on a broad level and honestly, I just didn't want to go down that path. I just didn't think we'd be having as much fun. you know, I wanted to stay local. There's just this margin erosion that happens with distribution. And I think during this journey is when I came across your podcast, and I remember listening to you and Michael Movits from Brandjectory. And after I listened to that particular episode, I shared it with Ben, and we were like, oh my gosh, we are clueless. We don't know what we don't know. And then I dabbled, like, with your program by buying your cost of goods sold worksheet. And when I got that, I was like, oh my gosh, this is incredible. Like, this is what I need. And prior to this, we had been introduced to like, a business advisor, and this guy was really savvy and convinced us we needed his services, and we spent a fortune, and we were in a contract for like, four months, and I couldn't get out of it, and I knew, like, a month into it, like, I'm doing already what he's telling me and more, and he didn't have CPG background. We spent like, several $1,000. Ben and I were so upset, and we would go on walks, and just couldn't believe what we had done. But then I found your program, and I'm like, this is what I need. These are the resources that we need. Someone like you specialize in a very you know, zero to 300,000 in sales, and you know, the people in your community and the calls you have are just like, incredible. I was, like, why did I spend that money? 

Sari  
I did a podcast about, you know, making money mistakes, and it happens, right? And you recovered. You get over it, you learn from it like. 

Lisa  
And it led us to you, quite frankly. And so I think, okay, that was just an expensive way to get to Sari. But anyway, the program has been great, and I like the fact that you have a coaching background, because you ask good questions, like you ask they're like, basic questions, but they're also like, oh, like, I don't have to be in Whole Foods, you know, I don't have to be. It just got me to the point of like, I can just make this work the way I want to make it work. Because when Ben shared with me, like, Mom, I want to pursue other industries. I was at a fork in the road because I'm like, well, I'm still enjoying this. I'm still enjoying the wholesale accounts, you know, the kitchen we work out of, they've partnered with us to, you know, just, you know, bring other people in to help make the product. So I wasn't quite ready to give it up. So I thought, okay, I'm just going to make it work for me, do what I can do, and stay in my lane, because it is hard, you know, I go on LinkedIn, or I go on, you know, different platforms, and I'm like, oh, I'm not doing that, or they're so much further along. And, you know, they seem to be, like, "successful" but I'm okay. I've gotten to the point where I'm like, you know what, this is great. I'm having fun. 

Sari  
Yeah, I love that because you booked a one on one call. I really appreciate how involved you are but we do this seriously, we do take investments. We got some issues with the CODs. Like it's not right, and fixed things. Becase you don't know what you don't know. We are actually learning about it on our 10x group. When you know the least, you are most over confident. It's always a blend like I don't want people to spend too much time in analysis paralysis, but like, go get help and support. And so when Ben was shifting out and making that decision, you and I had a call and give you as to, I know you're also in Jordan's group, Jordan Buckner, Food Bevy, which is, I think, also how we connected. And shout out to him. We love his group and all he's doing. And we you would come on some of the more I would do, like coaching, or business coaching, not strategy. And then you and I had that call, and you were like, I don't know. I feel like there's all these things I should do, and should I keep doing all the mark like you were doing, like, five markets between them and then, and then your wholesale. And should we do distribution? And what about Whole Foods? And you also had some other opportunities. And, yeah, that comparison, right? Compare and despair, and you look at what other people are doing, and we just have that conversation about, like, what do you want? What is fun for you? And giving you permission to create a beautiful business that is what you want right now in this season, doesn't mean you can't change your mind, but giving you permission to say that's not for me. I don't want to do that, but you're also getting all the information, like, what is that going to cost and time and energy and resources and money and all of that. And I mean, like, that doesn't and that's why I want to talk to you today. And why won't you have you on the podcast? Because I love how thoughtful you are and how you're really thinking about those values that you said at the beginning that you were always evaluating, like, are we having fun? Are we not hemorrhaging cash?

Lisa  
Yeah, I appreciate you saying that. And I think it was that meeting that made me realize that was such a simple question, but, like, so basic. Like, well, what is it that you want? And I think going into this Ben and I had no idea, you know, we didn't know that people are going to like it and keep buying it and I think everyone gets into it things, or at least from what I see, some people have an exit strategy. They want to go big and sell and get out and that just wasn't our journey. This was something fun, and I got to do it with Ben. And I thought, what a blessing. I mean, I said to him, like I could close this thing down tomorrow and not regret one single thing. We met the most amazing people, we have now partnered with the gentleman that we are at the commercial kitchen. He makes nut butters, which are fabulous, called Manna Organic Nut Butters. We sell those at our farmers markets, and then we partnered with a chocolate company. He put our granola on top of his organic dark chocolate. We don't have those anymore, but we are selling his other products, and we've just met the whole community. The consumer package have been so amazing people. Like, I'm just like, wow, even other granola founders. You're like, wow, we can get to share information. And that's really like, pretty cool.

Sari  
Yeah. And yeah, you get involved nNturally Chicago and some of the other groups and, you know, there's a balance there of like, you don't want to have all your time just community networking, and you got to be selective. But think you've really taken advantage of those things which help to, I don't know, when you're staying top of mind, right? And you're in people's world. They're like, thinking about you and wanting to support you and help you. And you know, I think people really want you to succeed and on your journey. So, you know, in that conversation, you were like, I don't want to do that many farmers markets, but I love that you got creative, and you're working with the nut butter guy, where he sells your granola at his farmers markets and you sell his and not every market will let you do that, but I let people do that under the right circumstances and so it's something to try. And I thought I love that you're like, let's solve the problem of not being at every because I don't want to do it all by myself because it's a lot. 

Lisa  
We've been creative, and it's been a win-win, you know, and we were already there a couple years ago, so people are thrilled that they can still get it. And even though I'm not there and I get to do, you know, I'm not even doing a market every Saturday. I think even that meeting with you kind of allowed me to go, gosh, I need a life. I can't be at every single market, so I had to just be okay going, okay, I'm going every other month or every other week, and that's good. 

Sari  
Yes, I'd say F the shoulds like you're going to be so much better off if you're doing. Things that you're excited about, and you're aligned about, and you're enthusiastic, and you show up, and you do it 100% than like, 50% all the time, right? And then you'll just kind of hate it and resent it, and it's not as great. And so one of the things we also talked about was, like, one of the things you don't like doing, and you don't like doing production, especially on your own, right, it's a big lift. And again, you have full time job and other kids and husband and life. So I love that you pursued kind of, again, another creative solution of not just going to a strict co packer, which you looked into, but so tell us about what you did there.

Lisa  
So we've developed a nice relationship with the gentleman at the kitchen that we are, that we're at, and he keeps giving me opportunity to keep moving forward. Every time I come to him with this a challenge that I have, he kind of says, well, what if we did this? And, you know, what if I help you, you know, make the product? And then, like, okay, you know, that would help me a lot. And then we're looking at maybe in 2025 if everything you know, the details work out that he will produce it on our behalf. And so we're still working through some of those details, but, you know, I like the fact that we've developed this relationship, and I think there was this friendship now, and there's this trust and he's okay if we don't want to do that, but he just thinks, you know, you have a good product. I see that it has a brand following because I sell it at this farmer's market that I'm doing, and I want to try to help you. And I'm like, that's great. So we have options, and we'll probably make a decision here in the next three to four months as to how we move forward. 

Sari  
Yeah, you've done a great job of building up, you know, your board of advisors, almost, right? Me, you have Jordan, you have, you know, even Michael Movitz and some other people that you've met at Food Bevy, and then this guy, and that's it's like, we need that as a business. We need a board of advisors. We need people who are rooting for us and looking out for us and having less interest in mine.

Lisa  
It's been a really neat industry to be a part of, and we have no idea, and you know, like, what the last three to four years would bring, but it's been very rich.

Sari  
Yeah, I love that. And we did an overhaul. We updated your website, and that was fun. And I got to help you with the Shopify switch and get you over. And because you were on, were you on a different platform, or did we just? 

Lisa  
Squarespace and then we transitioned to Shopify, it just seemed to be the platform that most everyone is on and we needed an update on our website anyway, we updated our packaging. So we, you know, just thought it all made sense to just to elevate. 

Sari  
I love what you've done as well. You've gotten some who's because, you know, you can't do it all. You are a one woman show, you have the other things. And so you have a gal who helps you, who was helping with the website, and helps you with some of the marketing pieces, part time, all you know, contract, factional basis. You also got some help with social media. You know, you were like, I'm not going to do the website. Like, let's get help. I helped you with that. And so I love that you're willing to say, I can't do it all. And what are the pieces that I'm going to outsource. 

Lisa  
Yeah, I don't pretend to know anything with, like, a lot of technology website, and, yeah, the whole getting the help has been great, like, and you were so available. And then Gina, the woman who does my website, I mean, there was just this partnership that we could come together and make it happen. Another funny story was when we updated our packaging. We were introduced to a company that could help us elevate it as we were getting into commercial stores or wholesale accounts. Rather, we felt we needed to up our game on the packaging. And we spent a lot of money again on this company, and they came back with these absolutely incredible designs, but Ben and I just didn't like any of them. They were really cool, but they just weren't our vibe. And then Gina, the woman who does my website, she's like, Lisa, I do that. And I'm like, really and so she took it over. She did focus groups again, Ben and I got this little like insight into marketing and packaging. And that was a really fun journey. And that in the outcome was the packaging that we have now, which we do get quite a few comments on, which is great. I just felt like that was, you know, a learning journey there, too.

Sari
Yeah, absolutely. I love that you are, you know, you're willing to pivot, you are such a good example of like I'm just trying to enjoy the journey, not that you don't have challenging moments, stress and whatnot. But again, you know that fun is a value of mine as well. And so it's like, if we're not having fun, what are we doing here? Like life is way too short to be miserable.

Lisa
Been fun.

Sari
So now I guess after we had that conversation, and, you know, because one of the options was like, shut it down. And we talked about that. We met in person when I was in the Chicago area, and I was so fun to have dinner, and you know, that was one of the conversations. Like, you could always sell this, you could shut it down. Like all of those things are on the table all the time. And do you choose to keep going? And so where, like, what are you doing now? And kind of where do you see, you talked about a little bit about 2025, but curious where that's going?

Lisa
My head at this very moment is I'm still enjoying the journey. I still enjoy selling. I like the farmers markets. I like meeting, you know, people who love our product. And people email me, and I'm still getting validation, which is just, you know, keeps me moving forward. And so I want to keep it going.

Sari
Yeah, amazing. And you get to keep, I think it's about as a CEO, and you went through Master Your Business, and hopefully, you know, we talked about your 10x goal, and your 10x goals, like, am I having fun? And, you know, this still work for my life and that's great. So you're willing to say, I'm going to go to work, I'm going to, like, make decisions, constrain as a CEO and not get off on too many shiny objects, although you do entertain, you're like, oh, I'm going to talk to this person, because I think you are a learner, right? You really enjoy the learning process, as do I. But you're willing to come back and say, this is my plan for now. And then let's reevaluate. You know, I think people make the mistake of, like, they make a decision, but then they constantly question it, instead of like, well, let me go execute it put into action. And then six months from now, I can reevaluate.

Lisa
Yeah. I mean, I think we're still getting introduced to, you know, other wholesale accounts, and if they're willing to let me self distribute, they then will pursue that. We did get into a couple more, like food co ops that have opened in the Chicagoland area, and they love local products, and so I love working with the current ones that we have now, they've been giving us great feedback. And so if I can just grow that way, I'm okay with that. We're making money, we're having fun. I mean, Ben's still peripherally involved. He's never going to be not. He still loves the stories and he loves, you know, I still ask him for advice on certain things, because I feel like he's young and he's got a pulse on things that I don't, and vice versa. So we're just going to keep it going the way it's working for now. And I love these other partnerships that we've created with like the nut butters and the chocolate. And people love that. It's a very complimentary products. So it's been great.

Sari
Well, here's my last question for you, because people who have partners are often like, I just wish I ran this on my own, and be so much easier. And then people who are solopreneurs, not always, but often are like, I just so wish I had a partner and help carry the load. So I'm curious, what were some of the like the pros and cons of having a, you know, a day to day involved partner, versus now. And you may not have a preference, because I think it's just like it is, you know, this is the new season, but I'm curious if you could illuminate us a little bit on partnership versus solo.

Lisa
You know, Ben and I generally got along, but we butted heads on a couple of things. Like, he had strong opinions about certain things, and like, the markets, like, why do we have to be in like, five markets? And, you know, he just didn't enjoy them as much as I did. But I, you know, I'm like, we have to, we need revenue. We can't just not sell. But he did them. Then he actually, in like, two months into this program that he's in, called me said, you know, Mom, you're right that doing those markets so equipped me to have conversations with complete strangers or whatever. You know, it's hard without him. I mean, like he helped in a lot of ways.

Sari
You had me and you have your advisors.

Lisa
I agree. Yeah, I've armed myself with your group, and you personally, and you have an amazing program. I mean, shout out to you, really. I like any, everyone who's starting out needs that kind of thing. And I do, like, Naturally Chicago, even the Hatchery, they still have some things that are, that are good, that I entertain. Jordan Buckner, like, yeah, you don't have to do it all. There's so many resources out there that I have no idea. Like, wow, this is a really robust industry. I suppose every industry has that, but you just don't know, because it's not your wheelhouse until you're like, in the thick of it.

Sari
But CPG is a little unique. I mean, I do think other industries have things, but especially for startups. And you know, why would you not take advantage of programs like mine and the other groups that are out there that will help you again, you know, we've done some work like, oh, that's like, let's reevaluate that, right? Like, yeah, you know. And do you want to make those investments? And so having those partners and I do think CPG is very generous, and because there are a lot of people who have never been in business before. And, you know, it's food, like, it's passion and it is a relatively low cost, low barrier to entry industry. And I think that there is this, like, desire for all of us to succeed. And I mean, ultimately, a lot of us are in this to change our food system, to change, you know, like, going from the mass produced food to something that's more real.

Lisa
Yes, I mean, people love PrimOla because of the nutrition profile. You know, they're lot of times they'll walk right by and won't even entertain it. But when they look at my chalkboard that I have and they're like, oh, 80% nuts, only two out of sugar, they stop. And people read labels now very thoroughly, and they are very educated, and they're willing to pay more for something that is like real food.

Sari
I love that, so share with us where we can find you, your website. I know you had an offer as well, so I'd love for you to share.

Lisa
Premolagranola.com and we have a 15% off for anyone who is listening to this pod and wants to take advantage of trying our products. It's Sari15. If you're in Chicagoland area, we're in about 15 first.

Sari
This is, we're totally leaving this in. This is the bane of my existence now with you say my name and my dang phone, including my own.

Lisa
Every local grocery stores in the Chicagoland area. And, yeah, follow us on Instagram, on Facebook, Premola Granola. And that's it.

Sari
Amazing. Yeah, here in all the places, we'll put the links in the show notes, so people can grab that. And, yeah, it's such a great product. I really enjoy it. And it's been such a pleasure to get to know you and have one, you know, I love, that's what one of the things I love about my group is I get to, you know, get to know people on such a more in depth level as we're small and intimate. And of course, when I travel, I love to to meet up with people in person.

Lisa
Yeah, you become friends. You know, it's been great. Like I said, it's been very rewarding and just full. It's been great.

Sari
Amazing. Thank you. Thank you for being such a champion of the program and all of that. I wish you all the best. Can't wait to see what the rest of the year holds, and I just so admire that you are staying true to your values and your goals for the business and creating a beautiful business for yourself. So

Lisa
Well, thanks and thank you again for having me.

Sari
All right, thanks, Lisa. What an incredible interview. And I hope you got something from that as we're leading up to the four year anniversary, I want to talk more about how you create a business that works for you, a beautiful business that fits into your life and is rewarding and also makes you money, of course, like you are in business, but entrepreneurship is so much bigger than that, and I really appreciate Lisa coming on. Until next time, have an amazing week!

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